It seems that the reptiles have at last gone into full Nine newspaper real estate mode, with talk of the nation's most expensive streets offering up a dose of real estate porn to striving members of the hive mind ...
The real estate porn was third story down and had by far the biggest snaps in an exciting animation offering sundry exciting snaps of pornographic sites and views ...
Down below the porn was an amusing item elevating Uncle Leon's satellites and deploring the NBN.
Isn't it wonderful how the reptiles can so easily forget their constant efforts to undermine and ruin the NBN, in conjunction with the onion muncher and his able lieutenant, who carried out his orders to introduce Malware into the system and kill it off from the get go ...
Over on the far right in the commentary section, there was more washing away of Benji's crimes by Cameron, while the reliable Chambers was chambering yet another shot at the greenies ...
The pond wondered if it might ever see a headline like this in the lizard Oz ... after all, it was a recent release, and seemed to have important points to make, instead of just regurgitating the arguments of a war criminal, then standing by him ...
The pond realised it might have reached an advanced state of delusionalism if it ever expected the reptiles to take notice of the ongoing genocide and ethnic cleansing and sundry war crimes of the mass starvation kind, but it is worth a cartoon ...
Yes, the pond realises it's an avoidance tactic, what with the dreaded bigotry of the hole in the bucket man awaiting the pond.
Feeling nauseous in anticipation, the pond continued the avoidance, and turned to the long awaited announcement by the mutton Dutton of the detailed costings of his energy plans.
The pond keeds, the pond keeds ... it was Rosie Lewis who cast her glow over the latest news ... Peter Dutton vows to cancel three offshore wind zones in NSW, and WA if he wins 2025 election, Peter Dutton has vowed to cancel half of Anthony Albanese’s six declared offshore wind zones, sparking a new clash over climate amid sovereign risk warnings.
The pond doesn't usually concern itself with reptile reporting - just hard core bigotry is enough - but this one began with an epic snap of the reptiles' favourite climate science warrior, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has vowed to cancel three offshore wind farm projects if he wins office. Picture: NewsWire / Martin Ollman
That was worth a cartoon too ...
Then it was on with the latest news ...
Campaigning in the NSW Labor-held marginal seat of Paterson following a blitz of key battleground seats in the state, the Opposition Leader declared he would “rip up” the Hunter offshore wind area proposed by the Albanese government, after already vowing to overturn zones in the Illawarra in NSW and Bunbury in Western Australia.
Mr Dutton will continue campaigning in NSW on Friday, which with Victoria and Western Australia is considered particularly crucial to a Coalition election win, while the Prime Minister will begin a three-day visit to the resources-rich state of WA, starting in Perth where he will announce $21m for five critical minerals projects as part of his Future Made in Australia agenda.
Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen accused Mr Dutton of having no plan for jobs in the Hunter as he talked up the economic benefits of offshore wind farms, while clean energy experts slammed the Coalition for undermining the offshore electricity infrastructure framework it established under Scott Morrison.
“The decision that we’ve taken as a Coalition is to make sure that we rip up these contracts, to make sure that we make it very clear that we will not proceed with the offshore turbines as proposed by the Albanese government,” Mr Dutton told a Port Stephens offshore wind zone community gathering.
Naturally there was a segue to that other in house mob:
Sky News host Steve Price has congratulated Opposition Leader Peter Dutton for pushing to cancel an offshore wind farm if the election swings his way. “The next election campaign, I believe, has started already,” Mr Price said. “Peter Dutton was in Port Stevens today and congratulations to him, he is cancelling, if he is elected and wins the election, an offshore wind farm.”
PETA CREDLIN: So, let me deal with the issue head on. Does climate change cause these fires? No. - Credlin, Sky News, 20 January, 2020
CHRIS KENNY: … So that’s the key. The drought. And if the drought can’t be blamed on climate change you can’t blame the fires on climate change, especially when so many are deliberately lit ... - The Kenny Report, Sky News, 11 December, 2019
ALAN JONES: What’s burning in Victoria are eucalypts. What’s burning in South Australia are eucalypts ... When are we going to wake up and stop using this as an excuse to justify the climate change hoax? - Richo & Jones, Sky News, 29 January, 2019
And in 2022, when floods hit the East Coast almost as hard, Sky’s After-Darkers were at it again:
CHRIS KENNY: … this isn’t new. We’ve always had them. We will always have them. - The Kenny Report, Sky News Australia, 9 March, 2022
And Sky’s Rowan Dean — the channel’s biggest clown — joined Miranda Devine in the Tele and sunk even lower by blaming London’s terrible Grenfell Fire, in which 72 people died, on climate change alarmism:
ROWAN DEAN: There's no other rational explanation for why this building went up like a tinderbox, like a Roman candle. - Outsiders, Sky News Australia, 18 June, 2017
That was totally wrong and a complete fabrication, as the official inquiry into the fire has since confirmed.
But Sky’s shock jocks didn’t just downplay or ignore climate science, they also targeted climate scientists with personal attacks:
PETA CREDLIN: Let’s be clear, this is not science but advocacy dressed up as science. And just because someone has ‘professor’ in his title doesn’t mean he’s not pushing a barrow. - Credlin, Sky News Australia, 28 November, 2019
And to the delight of its readers, The Australian campaigned almost as hard, ridiculing climate catastrophists:
More people being inundated, more floods/ droughts. You know, the normal catastrophic stuff - Media Watch, ABC, 15 October, 2018
Accusing scientists of exaggerating the state of the Great Barrier Reef.
And suggesting, back in 2015 that the world was facing a coming Ice Age.
To offer just three examples from scores of stories.
Even as the News Corp tabloids proclaimed they had joined the Green Revolution with a 16-page wrap around:
CARRIE BICKMORE: Yep, you heard that right.
VOICEOVER: ‘How the world’s racing to save the planet’. ‘Vic power plant worker backs change from coal’. ‘How much solar panels will save you’. ‘Getting Australia to a net zero future’. - The Project, Ten Network, 11 October, 2021
Whatever happened to that? It didn’t last long.
It disappeared faster than a Gaza genocide headline, and now here we are ...
“The Prime Minister really needs to come down here and speak to you and to explain and to justify.”
Mr Bowen declared six priority offshore wind zones – Gippsland and Southern Ocean (Victoria), Bass Strait (Tasmania), Bunbury (WA) and Illawarra and Hunter (NSW) – in August 2022, shortly after Labor won government, which are all at differing stages of being investigated.
Coalition sources noted Mr Dutton may not oppose any more than the three zones he’s pledged to rescind and would treat the remaining areas on a case-by-case basis, insisting he was addressing community concerns first and foremost.
Mr Bowen said the Hunter offshore wind zone could generate enough power to keep the lights on in 1.2 million homes, equivalent to two Tomago smelters.
“Peter Dutton has no plan for Hunter jobs and can’t be trusted to look after the energy workers in the region,” Mr Bowen said.
“Offshore wind in the Hunter could support future onshore manufacturing, as it builds on the local industrial expertise and infrastructure. Should the project go ahead, it would employ around 3000 workers during construction and create around 200 to 300 permanent local jobs.
“It would inject development expenditure worth hundreds of millions of dollars into the Hunter region and leverage existing heavy industry.”
Bid joined in the chanting ...
Nationals Senate Leader Bridget McKenzie claims Opposition leader Peter Dutton has made “the right call” in vowing to scrap an offshore wind farm project. “We’ve been listening to the local community,” she told Sky News Australia. “This project is going to have incredibly negative impacts on the ground.”
... though the mutton Dutton's ugly mug dominated the frame ...
Then it was on to the final gobbet ...
Clean Energy Council chief executive Kane Thornton said the Australian offshore wind industry required long-term certainty to provide the confidence to develop and invest in these “significant” assets.
“Today’s announcement from the Leader of the Opposition will send shockwaves through offshore wind investors and risks undermining investment confidence in offshore wind and other energy and infrastructure sectors across Australia,” he said.
“As coal exits the energy system over coming years, investment in a suite of renewable energy technologies such as offshore wind, will be critical to deliver the lowest-cost energy system for consumers.”
Smart Energy Council chief executive John Grimes said the Coalition was doing everything it could to ensure Australians remained locked into coal and gas, which he said were the “most expensive, filthy and unreliable forms of electricity generation”.
“The notion that Peter Dutton and David Littleproud are opposed to offshore wind because they’re born-again environmentalists would be laughable if it wasn’t so terrifying and damaging,” Mr Grimes said.
“Having failed to land an energy policy for their entire 10 years in government, Peter Dutton’s Coalition is now proposing to do away with a clean energy source that will reliably power millions of Australian homes and businesses.”
After finishing the parliamentary year by pushing through 45 government bills in a week, Mr Albanese said his critical minerals funding would support projects across the country, creating “opportunities” for direct jobs and through the supply chain.
“Peter Dutton and the Coalition voted against WA last week in the parliament when they refused to vote for production tax credits for the WA resources industry,” the Prime Minister said ahead of visiting Perth as he attempts to cement major gains Labor made at the last election.
“A strong resources sector means a healthy economy and good, well-paid local jobs.”
Why did the pond start with a news report on the latest bout of climate science denialism, renewables abuse and pandering to the worst?
Well, it seemed a fitting way to slide into our Henry's latest bout of bigotry, Calling Indigenous lore science marks Ed Husic’s ignorance, Ed Husic grossly misrepresents the nature of the scientific enterprise by saying Indigenous Australians were ‘the nation’s first scientists’. But he is not alone. A burgeoning industry now promotes ‘Indigenous science’ across our schools and universities.
It meant that the pond would waste some five minutes of its life, or so the reptiles say, but at least there'd be the mark of the Satanic beast that might come in handy, what with a snap of Industry and Science Minister Ed Husic. Picture: Martin Ollman/NewsWire
Then it was on with the bigotry, and never mind the replicable mechanics involved in constructing a boomerang or a spear thrower ...not when our hole in the bucket man can trot out his usual pompous classical references...
Nor is Husic alone in making those claims. Thanks to generous taxpayer funding, a burgeoning industry promotes “Indigenous science” in venues ranging from schools to universities.
But to call Indigenous knowledge “science” grossly misrepresents the nature of the scientific enterprise that emerged from the intellectual revolution of the 17th century. The error is neither innocent nor harmless: it both devalues that revolution’s achievements, which made Western science into an engine room of human progress, and projects a romantic, yet fundamentally condescending, vision of Indigenous culture.
To refer to the changes that occurred in the 17th century as a revolution is not to ignore the solid foundations on which they built. The notion of science as an activity that, in the words of Diogenes Laertius (180AD-240AD), seeks to “understand things as they are” through the “rational explanation of phenomena”, was well known in classical antiquity and persisted into the Middle Ages.
However, the great thinkers of the 17th century radically transformed what Kant later referred to as science’s “regulative principles”: that is, the rules that distinguished science, as an activity and as a body of knowledge, from mere knowhow.
At a fundamental level, the transformation involved a dramatic change in the conception of the cosmos.
The reptiles flung in an audio visual distraction, featuring lovely meter maid Rita ... with maths standards all the fault of uppity, difficult black people ...
Mathematic skills across the country have been falling for two decades, according to Sky News host Rita Panahi. “At the end of last year, almost half of Australia’s 15-year-olds were failing to achieve national standards in key areas of math, science and reading,” Ms Panahi said. “It is math that is declining most rapidly of the three over the past 20 years.” Ms Panahi’s comments come as ANU is set to introduce professors to teach ‘Indigenous mathematics’. “Since the original curriculum was apparently too racist and Western-centric,” she said.
Yes, yes, let us not mention mathematics in the medieval Islamic world, Arabic maths and what not. Let's just take all the cred and blather about being Western-centri ...
Then it was back to our Henry in full pompous reference mode ...
In turn, those presuppositions of regularity and homogeneity underpinned a change that proved momentous: the rejection of Aristotle’s prohibition on metabasis, that is, on the transposition of methods from one discipline to another.
The sciences, said Rene Descartes in 1637, could not progress “in isolation from each other”; they all had to advance, and could only advance, by adopting common methods, centred on developing mathematical representations of the phenomena they were seeking to explain.
And the test of those representations had to be both analytical and empirical: analytical in terms of mathematical correctness; empirical, in that it had to be shown that the representation could be used to recreate the phenomenon.
Truth, in other words, was “fact” in the Latin sense of the word: that which can be done or made. As Giambattista Vico summarised the new thinking in 1710, “verum et factum convertuntur” – the true is that which can be converted into fact, ie, can be done in practice.
That is why Newton, to prove the existence of a centre of gravity, devised the famous experiment of the rotating bucket filled with water. It is also why Francis Bacon resuscitated the Greek term “praxis” – the unity of theory and practice – in the Novum Organum (1620) to describe the “scientia activa” of experimentation, which, far from diverting study from its object, was the sole means of “augmenting” it.
There was another snap of a villain Bruce Pascoe, The Dark Emu Story ...
... but that mention of Newton did make the pond wonder if our Henry had backed the right horse, given that Newton didn't think much of his science, and had other hobbies, of a mystical kind ...
In the Early Modern Period of Newton's lifetime, the educated embraced a world view different from that of later centuries. Distinctions between science, superstition, and pseudoscience were still being formulated, and a devoutly Christian biblical perspective permeated Western culture.
Alchemical research
Much of what are known as Isaac Newton's occult studies can largely be attributed to his study of alchemy. From a young age, Newton was deeply interested in all forms of natural sciences and materials science, an interest which would ultimately lead to some of his better-known contributions to science. His earliest encounters with certain alchemical theories and practices were when he was twelve years old, and boarding in the attic of an apothecary's shop.[4] During Newton's lifetime, the study of chemistry was still in its infancy, so many of his experimental studies used esoteric language and vague terminology more typically associated with alchemy and occultism.[5] It was not until several decades after Newton's death that experiments of stoichiometry under the pioneering works of Antoine Lavoisier were conducted, and analytical chemistry, with its associated nomenclature, came to resemble modern chemistry as we know it today. However, Newton's contemporary and fellow Royal Society member Robert Boyle had already discovered the basic concepts of modern chemistry and began establishing modern norms of experimental practice and communication in chemistry, information which Newton did not use. (wiki for the footnotes).
The pond hesitates to accuse the hole in the bucket man of disenchantment, but if the irony-laden shoe fits ...
In social science, disenchantment (German: Entzauberung) is the cultural rationalization and devaluation of religion apparent in modern society. The term was borrowed from Friedrich Schiller by Max Weber to describe the character of a modernized, bureaucratic, secularized Western society. In Western society, according to Weber, scientific understanding is more highly valued than belief, and processes are oriented toward rational goals, as opposed to traditional society, in which "the world remains a great enchanted garden".
Hah, the pond managed to fit in its own pompous references, before moving on ... with our superstitious Henry suddenly seeming to suggest that there was a creator in the mix.
Maybe that talk of disenchantment stung a little ... come on down creator and join the portentous chat ...
However, the pioneers of the new science were cautious in their claims. Yes, mathematical techniques could accurately model limiting cases, such as motion in a vacuum; but they only approximated actual outcomes. And it was improper to speculate about the underlying causes of phenomena beyond what could be directly observed and experimentally verified.
Hence Newton’s great outcry, “hypotheses non fingo”, “I feign no hypotheses”, regardless of how much superficial completeness adding unproven hypotheses might give his system.
That intellectual modesty opened the road to a recognition of the uncertainties inherent both in the actual operation of the laws of motion and in their testing. In what ranks among humanity’s great breakthroughs, Blaise Pascal’s work on probability theory, and Thomas Bayes’ formalisation of inductive inference, set the basis for the systematic hypothesis testing that allowed Western science to progress at an unprecedented rate.
But that rate of progress also reflected another crucial feature of the intellectual revolution: its openness. Traditionally, true knowledge had been seen as esoteric, handed down, within closed circles, from one generation to the other and validated by the weight of inherited authority. By the end of the 17th century, that notion had been utterly discredited. Instead, theories, models and experimental results were widely published, discussed and contested, vastly accelerating their development.
In short, what defined Western science and made it absolutely unique – and uniquely powerful – was the tight integration of formal methods, rigorous verification and public replicability. Additionally and crucially, it was self-aware, devoting ongoing attention to the regulative principles with which scientific practice had to comply.
At this point the reptiles dropped in another snap ... Silas Wolmby (L) and Peter Sutton in 2012. Picture: Brian Cassey
Now the pond isn't going to embark on an argument with our Henry.
The pond will leave that to others, such as Joe Sambono, Jingili man, at the Australian Museum with Indigenous science goes far beyond boomerangs and spears ...
To suggest that there are any groups of human beings who didn’t have science is, ironically, quite unscientific.
Australia is home to many of the earliest examples of scientific thinking in the world, and any curriculum that aspires to be relevant to Australian students should obviously include an understanding of Australian science throughout history.
This is not just relevant here; learning about ‘world firsts’ is important in any field of study. It is also crucially important to recognise and not denigrate Indigenous science as mere ‘superstition and witchcraft’ if we want to engage Indigenous students in the sciences and promote respect as well as scientific rigour amongst non-Indigenous students.
When I was a student I learned that Aboriginal people were nomads, hunters and gatherers, and otherwise didn’t achieve much of interest in ‘40,000 years’. As Dr Irabinna Lester Rigney has argued, “Indigenous intellectual traditions and knowledge transmission, which sustained Indigenous cultures and humanity for thousands of years, were not considered worthy science or even science at all.”
Science at its core is, in my opinion, a human trait practised to some degree by all peoples of the world.
As Robin Fox wrote in 1996, “In our everyday thinking we are constantly testing and confirming and falsifying hypotheses; this more than “conditioning” explains how we behave as we do.
We are natural scientists; we have no other choice…our perception of the world, and our decision making about it work on the basic principles of hypothesis testing and refutation, and that “scientific method” therefore is simply the extension of basic cognitive principles.”
How did the Dyirabal People learn to detoxify cycads? How did the Mithaka People learn to detoxify nardoo? How were spear throwers developed? How was fire starting developed?
Indeed, indeed, but how did our Henry's complacent white nationalist bigotry arise?
Would it help explain the cheek with which he berates the Chinese, currently cleaning lots of clocks when it comes to science and technology, and not just on the dark side of the moon ...
However, Husic’s claim is not just absurd. It is, like Bruce Pascoe’s fantasies about settled agriculture, deeply patronising. Husic plainly does not grasp the complex of ideas that comprise the scientific method. But he clearly believes that Indigenous culture, if it is to be respected, must be cast as an anticipation, if not a mirror, of Western culture. If we had science, whatever that may be, they must have had it too – and many centuries before us.
One might have hoped that the decisive refutation of Pascoe’s contentions by Keryn Walshe and Peter Sutton would have laid those views, and the broader attitudes they embody, to rest.
Yet they live on, thanks, in part, to sheer ignorance. Also at work is the conviction that historical accuracy and intellectual honesty matter less than “celebrating” Indigenous culture – a conviction that, far from promoting science, offends the unbending commitment to the truth that is science’s very essence. Significant too is the now ingrained hostility to the Western achievement, and to the scientific spirit, which is among its glittering jewels, with it.
However, spinning fairytales is no way of convincing the community, and young people in particular, of science’s vast potential. Nor will it do anything to reverse the continuing fall in the number of high school students taking core science subjects. Having a minister for science who knows what the term means will certainly not solve those problems. But it would be a sensible place to start.
Waiter, please, a boomerang with which to club the bigot on the head ...
And so to a bonus, featuring Morning Joe ...
Again the pond must break from the tradition of observing the reptiles ...this time it was David Frum in The Atlantic scribbling The Sound of Fear on Air, It is an ominous sign that Morning Joe felt it had to apologize for something I said.
There's no doubt there's fear in the land ...
...and Frum - someone the pond would have once dismissed out of hand - felt a small tentacle caressing his stubbled cheeks ... thanks to the craven lickspittle kiss the ring apologists at MSNBC, in full rout and retreat ...
I was invited onto MSNBC’s Morning Joe to talk from a studio in Washington, D.C., about an article I’d written on Trump’s approach to foreign policy. Before getting to the article, I was asked about the nomination of Pete Hegseth as secretary of defense—specifically about an NBC News report that his heavy drinking worried colleagues at Fox News and at the veterans organizations he’d headed. (A spokesman for the Trump transition told NBC, “These disgusting allegations are completely unfounded and false, and anyone peddling these defamatory lies to score political cheap shots is sickening.”)
I answered by reminding viewers of some history:
"In 1989, President George H. W. Bush nominated John Tower, senator from Texas, for secretary of defense. Tower was a very considerable person, a real defense intellectual, someone who deeply understood defense, unlike the current nominee. It emerged that Tower had a drinking problem, and when he was drinking too much he would make himself a nuisance or worse to women around him. And for that reason, his nomination collapsed in 1989. You don’t want to think that our moral standards have declined so much that you can say: Let’s take all the drinking, all the sex-pesting, subtract any knowledge of defense, subtract any leadership, and there is your next secretary of defense for the 21st century."
I told this story in pungent terms. It’s cable TV, after all. And I introduced the discussion with a joke: “If you’re too drunk for Fox News, you’re very, very drunk indeed.”
At the next ad break, a producer spoke into my ear. He objected to my comments about Fox and warned me not to repeat them. I said something noncommittal and got another round of warning. After the break, I was asked a follow-up question on a different topic, about President Joe Biden’s pardon of his son. I did not revert to the earlier discussion, not because I had been warned, but because I had said my piece. I was then told that I was excused from the studio chair. Shortly afterward, co-host Mika Brzezinski read an apology for my remarks.
"A little bit earlier in this block there was a comment made about Fox News, in our coverage about Pete Hegseth and the growing number of allegations about his behavior over the years and possible addiction to alcohol or issues with alcohol. The comment was a little too flippant for this moment that we’re in. We just want to make that comment as well. We want to make that clear. We have differences in coverage with Fox News, and that’s a good debate that we should have often, but right now I just want to say there’s a lot of good people who work at Fox News who care about Pete Hegseth, and we will want to leave it at that."
I am a big admirer of the Morning Joe show and the commitment of all involved to bring well-informed political discussion to a national audience.
I recognize, too, that the prominence of the program has exposed the hosts and producers to extraordinary pressures and threats in the Trump era. Trump has spoken again and again of his determination to retaliate against unfriendly media. Shortly before leaving office, Trump amplified a conspiracy theory that Brzezinski’s co-host, Joe Scarborough, was a murderer. Kash Patel, Trump’s nominee to head the FBI, has compiled an enemies list to target with investigations. Trump’s candidate to chair the FCC has speculated about stripping licenses from platforms that displease the new incoming administration. Interference with mergers and acquisitions to punish critics was a feature of Trump’s first administration. Now MSNBC may be spun off by Comcast, leaving the future of the liberal network very much in question. The hosts of Morning Joe visited Mar-a-Lago in November to mend fences with Trump. They genuinely have a lot to worry about.
It is a very ominous thing if our leading forums for discussion of public affairs are already feeling the chill of intimidation and responding with efforts to appease.
I write these words very aware that I’m probably saying goodbye forever to a television platform that I enjoy and from which I have benefited as both viewer and guest. I have been the recipient of personal kindnesses from the hosts that I have not forgotten.
I do not write to scold anyone; I write because fear is infectious. Let it spread, and it will paralyze us all.
The only antidote is courage. And that’s infectious, too.
This article originally misstated Comcast's plans for its news channels.
David Frum is a staff writer at The Atlantic.
Okay, all that was just so that the pond could wrap up proceedings with an on topic cartoon from the immortal Rowe ...
Hmmm, Geoff Chambers: "Anthony Albanese and Tanya Plibersek are sleepwalking into electoral disaster if they back green activists over Tasmanian salmon."
ReplyDeleteWell I for one won't eat Tasmanian salmon. But I do eat NZ salmon once a week: lightly cooked, very tasty (I do like sushi and sashimi, but I'm not totally Japanified yet). Don't mind the rockling, either.
"Isn't it wonderful how the reptiles can so easily forget their constant efforts to undermine and ruin the NBN...". Oh. And I thought it was just the reptiles boasting about yet another successful social demolition job. Silly me.
ReplyDeleteChrist on a stick, GrueBleen you are coping well today. I got to the bit about how indigenous thinking was not science but 17th century white thinking was and my brain exploded. The tortuous cognitive mechanisms used to make this claim is so fucking stupid, I just cannot....
DeleteI want to go out get a gun and shoot a reptile. Lucky we don't live in a libertarian paradise. I'd not be able to buy a gun. And anyway, I'm too old to ride off on an ebike.
So wonderful to have this blog to read to know I am not the only one who is disgusted by their destruction of the good parts of Western civilisation and civility.
Why thank you, Anony. 😄
DeleteOf course the indigenous thinking is (not was) science in the sense of verified and validated systematic knowledge. But compared with Judeo-Christian Civilisation science, it sadly lacks language for recording and seriously lacks any formal mathematics. Therefore gormless goons such as Holely Henry will be able to claim "it's not science" which is roughly on a par with their claim "it's not climate change".
I do think, from time to time, about human history - ie the existence of the homo sapiens sapiens subspecies - which has been running for at least 190,000 years (some say 300,000) and I wonder wtf we were doing before we got to writing and mathematics and systematised knowledge (with schools to pass it on) and then I encounter a reptile and/or a wingnut and it becomes bleedin' bloody obvious.
Holely Hen: "At a fundamental level, the [17th century] transformation involved a dramatic change in the conception of the cosmos."
DeleteFor one thing, it started well before the 17thC (first European university Bologna in Italy 1088, and England's Oxford in 1096) and for the most damning thing, it still hasn't countered the multi-millenniums old belief in a bunch of nonsensical religions. None of them being any more reasonable or sensible than indigenous religions.
But ok, yes, it did reach a bit of a peak in the 17thC with Leibnitz and Newton (differential calculus) and Newton (gravity and planetary motion). None of which, along with Persian mathematics (algebra etc), got even a hint of a mention in various 'Holy Books'.
I do a lot of wondering about what indigenous culture could have been all about. My dad who spent a year droving in the Qld outback after he did a fine arts degree, in the 40s and was curious and not bigoted, said as a one liner to people that their number one priority or rule was to raise up the children right.
ReplyDeleteRaising children up right is not something our culture does well.
Naah, well any culture that has chimney sweeps as young as 3yo (so it's said) isn't "raising children up right" is it. Just one among the many great achievements of Judeo-Christian Civilisation.
DeleteHolely Hen (quoting): "If we had science, whatever that may be, they must have had it too – and many centuries before us." Well that all comes down to how many centuries "us" have been around, doesn't it. Now if we accept that the Aussie indigenes somehow 'migrated' to Australia maybe 60,000 years ago, one has to inquire about the state of the people who didn't migrate, or who migrated, but not as far as Australia.
ReplyDeleteWhat state were they in ? Did they have much the same knowledge as Aussie indigenes ? Could they light fires ? Could they make spears ? Did any of them have woomeras or their equivalent ?
So who knows ? For all we know the Aussie aboriginals might have been the advanced and adventurous people of their time and we more or less 'stay at home' folks didn't have the same knowledge or skills as the more adventurous of the time.
But I guess we still have to ask, what happened ? Why, in about 60,000 years, did the Aussie aboriginals go only as far as they did ? And why did they never develop a written language of any particular capability ?
This article I thought was interesting.
Deletehttps://theconversation.com/an-incredible-journey-the-first-people-to-arrive-in-australia-came-in-large-numbers-and-on-purpose-114074
The authors answer questions and some of the discussion in the comments is informative.
Speculating wildly, maybe these people were fleeing conservatives and neo-liberalism?
Thing is about my dad's idea is that by raising the kids up right, they were able to not change their culture. They used every psychological trick in the book to ensure that all the children grew up to identify with the 'laws'.
He thought that the 'violence' was not war, not for land or profit or to get ahead, it kept the young people busy, the girls sizing up the young fellas and the young fellas showing they were good men.
Maybe the weird kids like our autistics, were diverted into activities that kept them from becoming rebels and wanting change or to be the other gender and polythesim, rather than Abrahamic one god would seem to be a better way to provide guidance for the different child temperaments, or whatever we call the variation in human nature that is so obvious.
Maybe they were geneticists with the laws about who could marry who and the complexity and detailed construction of the totemic identifiers kept all the clever people busy contributing.
Anyway, it's just appalling how this sort of narrow minded negative lies about things they know nothing about goes on and on.
Thanks for reading.
Anonymous - I believe that particular kinds of behaviour, now referred to as 'on the spectrum' were actually essential to the survival of earlier generations of Homo sapiens when we were hunter/gatherers. Various studies indicate that, just to live a day-to-day life as hunter/gatherer, each human had to be acquainted with essential characteristics of hundreds of plants and animals. The particular dichotomy with each was - is this good to eat, or will it make me sick, blind, crazy, paralysed? That number goes into the thousands, particularly of plants, if your clan wants to have the benefits of plant extracts to ease various milder illnesses. That requires someone who is prepared truly to learn from a shaman, all the little distinctions of berries that are good tucker, or not so good tucker but relieve pain = through to berries that could kill.
DeleteMove forward, through the saying attributed (doubtfully) to Ernest Rutherford, that in science there is physics and there is stamp collecting - without people, unquestionably 'along the spectrum', who were happy to spend almost all their waking time carefully differentiating between this beetle and that beetle, or moss, or grain - we would not have most of modern biology. I was able to work with some of the great names in my own time in research, and they were - odd. But that 'oddness' has been very useful to society, and will continue to be so. If 'AI' can be developed such that it duplicates much of what is contained in the brains of such taxonomists - then it will be on the way to being truly useful to the rest of us.
Yep, I totally agree that every human ability must have been valued and made use of in indigenous life; the idea was to look for the special abilities in each child right from the start. Abilities like the super recognisers and super smellers, as well as all the categorisation abilities would have been useful.
DeleteThey actually valued human capital we could think, especially the odd humans who maybe weren't so odd in that culture. Not being odd would have been nice. It's not easy being odd.
Re GB and Anonymous Dec 6, 2024, 9:26:00 AM
ReplyDelete"Christ on a stick, GrueBleen you are coping well today. I got to the bit about how indigenous thinking was not science but 17th century white thinking was and my brain exploded"
Me too.
"According to Ed Husic, the Minister for Science, Indigenous Australians were “the nation’s first scientists”, whose insights, obtained “through observation, experimentation and analysis”, rested upon “the bedrock of the scientific method”.
Just like newscorpse opinionistas - no science but deadly - welcome to the “the bedrock of the scientific method”.
Newscorpse! All are trials. No errors. Deadly.
"First-Ever Biomechanics Study of Indigenous Weapons Shows What Made Them so Deadly"...
"Our results show that while design is critical for weapon efficiency,
[newscorose] it is the person who must deliver the deadly strike."
https://theconversation.com/first-ever-biomechanics-study-of-indigenous-weapons-shows-what-made-them-so-deadly-239936
Just like the opinionistas who deliver deadly strikes via poisoned minds and ink. On wood pulp.
As our esteemed hostess suggested, I tried to ignore the Henry’s reflections on indigenous understanding of the world that supported them. But it became too egregiously silly when he tried to advance the idea that, for centuries, whitefellas have all ordered their lives by the science that had been shown to them.
ReplyDeleteI have mentioned here before the indigenous management of taking sea turtles for food across the Northern Territory. As young men got the idea to take a turtle, they waited for approval from old men. if it was not approved, they risked serious consequences if they went ahead.
Now - what would now be termed an ‘allowable catch’ was a number agreed across all the coastal communities, because, as far as we knew, that was one stock of sea turtles. So there was some process, presumably at gatherings such as for the harvest of goose eggs in Arafura Swamp, for old men of authority, to agree on a broad number to be taken, and, probably, local subdivision of quota.
What did not happen, even in my time, was any sign at local scale of the actions of supposedly wise white fellas who were in charge of the Australian states, of taking as much as they could of living resources that extended across state boundaries (all having been set by even wiser white fellas, from the set of wisdom in London). That applied in the states until it became obvious that such rivalry was driving stocks to seriously low levels - as happened with Southern Bluefin Tuna.
I admit there is a lot of conjecture in the turtle ‘management’, but the fact was - done that way, the take was sustainable, and had been for as long as memory, and ‘story’ could tell me.
No, there were no mathematical calculations scribed into stone galleries of the escarpment. In April of this year, I was notified of the death of Colin Whitcomb Clark FRS. He was 92, and had had the ‘good life’. Colin was the one person of genius level I worked with. His major publications were in mathematics. But, in chatting with him (as it happened, mainly on the shores of Arnhem Land) I gained his opinions that very little had been achieved from endless manipulation of the forms of mathematics. To Colin, the important thing was the thought experiments that developed a kind of mental model of the process that one was studying. Mathematics was the best way then of describing that mental model to others.
Implicit in that is that it was still possible to formulate a mental model of some natural process, and - particularly if your culture did not have mathematics of the kind we now recognise - you could still impart understanding of the significant parts of your mental model to others. The significant parts being those that should guide the actions of your tribe or clan, or even tribes with which you had other regular contact.
The ‘imparting’ could be by story, myth - some construction that helped your listeners understand the challenge you were describing, and your suggestion of a way of managing that challenge.
The Henry shows no sign of recognising that as part of the culture that sustained our indigenous predecessors for many millennia.
Unfortunately for his attempt for a ‘thesis’ for this week - wise whitefellas, looking over the myths and legends presented to them on supposedly ‘social’ media - are too easily convinced of interpretations of modern story and myth that do not conduce to their own welfare, nor to the welfare of their species. It is difficult to fit such thoughts as ‘Owning liberals’ or ‘making lefties heads explode’ into story useful to human survival and progress.
Don't forget to include the Budj Bim in Gippsland and their international recognition (only Victorians, and not many at that, ever seem to have heard of the Gunditjmara and their world famous aquaculture networks).
Deletehttps://www.budjbim.com.au/about-us/world-heritage/
One of the great hypocrisies of Henry and his fellow Reptiles defending the superiority of Western scientific method is that they’re more than happy to ignore or deny the outcomes of that method when it runs counter to their particular ideological biases.
ReplyDelete